Legislature(2009 - 2010)BELTZ 211
03/02/2009 02:00 PM Senate JUDICIARY
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB52 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| + | SB 52 | TELECONFERENCED | |
SB 52-SALVIA DIVINORUM AS CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE
2:13:47 PM
CHAIR FRENCH announced the consideration of SB 52 and said there
is no intention to move the bill today.
DAVE STANCLIFF, Staff to Senator Therriault, said he has been
working on this legislation for four years. Salvia divinorum is
a potent hallucinogen, primarily grown in the mountains of
Mexico, with a long history of use by the Mazatec Indians as a
vision inducing substance. The drug enforcement administration
of New Jersey has said that a dose of 200 to 500 micrograms
produces profound hallucinations when smoked. Users compare it
to Ketamine and Mescaline and it is touted on Internet sites
aimed at young adults and adolescents.
2:15:24 PM
In the three years that this legislation has been considered,
there has been a huge rise in availability, he said. A former
postal station down the street has a sticker in the front window
saying that Salvia is available there.
CHAIR FRENCH asked for clarification that they advertize it in
the shop window.
MR. STANCLIFF said they do and he could have purchased some as a
sample, but it runs counter to the way he does business.
CHAIR FRENCH commented that he made a wise decision.
MR. STANCLIFF cited an article from the U.S. News and World
Report that said that a national survey from 2006 found that
about 1.8 million people 12 years or older have used Salvia in
their lifetime, and about 750,000 have used it in recent years.
Entering the term into the YouTube search engine yielded more
than 4,600 results, he said.
2:17:07 PM
CHAIR FRENCH recognized that Senator McGuire had joined the
committee.
MR. STANCLIFF explained that the sponsor's primary interest in
the legislation is to send a message to both Internet and smoke
shop retailers that it is dangerous and should be controlled
like other hallucinogenic substances. Salvia would not be
disallowed for medical purposes, but it would no longer be
readily available on the Internet or in smoke shops. According
to the Navy's Drug Detection and Deterrence Branch, young adults
have become interested in rediscovering ethno-botanical plants
that can induce hallucinations and other psychological changes.
Indications are that the long-term effects of using Salvia
divinorum may be similar to those of other hallucinogens such as
LSD. Thos include depression and schizophrenia. Nine states have
legislatively controlled or banned Salvia, 18 states are
considering controls and 12 countries have made it illegal or
are looking at strict controls. We may not know the long-term
effects of using Salvia but when you watch the YouTube clips you
can't imagine anyone's child being on it and you can't imagine
any adult wanting to take the substance, he said. People who are
experienced in the use of other hallucinogenic substance warn
against the use of Salvia. It's hard to say why anyone would
want to try it, he said, but kids are prone to try things that
carry risk.
MR. STANCLIFF said the sponsor realizes that no law will shut
out the use of this substance, but the increased use is cause
for concern. Although some adults would argue that it should be
a personal choice, he would submit that if you were to watch and
listen to the people that use Salvia, you wouldn't come to that
conclusion.
2:21:29 PM
MR. STANCLIFF noted that the Chair heard the bill in the
previous committee and there were questions about Salvia's
medicinal qualities. He has done further research and would
provide the information if desired.
CHAIR FRENCH said he would like the information. Before the
committee convened, he reminded himself that the Legislature put
medical marijuana statutes on the books because the medical
community believes there is some legitimate use under controlled
circumstances. He asked if there is any recognition of Salvia
divinorum in a parallel way.
MR. STANCLIFF explained that there have been experiments using
Salvia divinorum to help with addictions. It may hold promise
because of the way the hallucinogen interacts with brain
receptors. He restated that this legislation wouldn't prohibit
that continuing line of research. He noted that there has been
difficulty in developing a forensic test to tell whether or not
someone has taken Salvia divinorum, which is a challenge to law
enforcement. The Department of Public Safety is available to
respond to those questions, but the larger question asks what
message it sends to young people for this substance to be
completely allowed and lawful.
2:23:32 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE questioned why the bill hadn't passed in
previous years and asked if there needs to be some sort of
compromise.
MR. STANCLIFF explained that in previous years the bill never
had a negative vote out of committee. One year it died in the
Senate Rules Committee and the next two years it died in the
Senate Finance Committee.
SENATOR MCGUIRE suggested he consider including it in other
crime bills.
MR. STANCLIFF said the gas line and other weighty issues
eclipsed a number of things the last few years, but this year
they hope for a different outcome.
2:25:45 PM
CHAIR FRENCH asked Lieutenant Dial if Salvia divinorum is on the
radar and has been a problem for officers.
RODNEY DIAL, Lieutenant, Department of Public Safety (DPS), said
he's discussed this with the drug enforcement unit and the
consensus is that they hasn't been looking for it. Officers
haven't seen it because they aren't trained to identify or track
it. They know that it's available for purchase throughout the
state and online with costs running from $7.45 to $23.45 per
gram depending on concentration. Some Internet sites offer
"rookie packs." The YouTube videos are a concern because users
are apparently unable to perform even simple tasks. "If we start
experiencing traffic accidents … with this drug out there, we
really don't know how we're going to address that or even test
for that at this time." He said the department supports SB 52
and would like to address this problem before it becomes
critical.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if there is a way to test whether or
not someone has used the substance.
LIEUTENANT DIAL explained that officers would perform field
sobriety tests and there are drug recognition tests that may
identify Salvia or other substances. At this point it would be
difficult to prove in court that someone was acting under the
influence with a blood test.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if he knows of any accidents or
injuries in Alaska that have been caused by someone under the
influence of Salvia divinorum.
LIEUTENANT DIAL replied he isn't aware of any.
CHAIR FRENCH noted that he received a letter from someone who
was dissatisfied with the way public testimony happened in the
last committee. Three people signed up to testify today and he
asked them to limit their testimony to five minutes.
2:29:21 PM
JACK DEGENSTEIN said he is a voter in Anchorage District M and
represents a community of Salvia divinorum enthusiasts. He has
researched the plant for more than six years and has grown it
for more than four years. Salvia divinorum in particular was an
inspiration to return to school to study chemistry. This bill
has been introduced three different years and in that time
there's been no reported incidence that has proved that the
current legal status of the plant is a health or social crisis.
This causes him to question the sponsor's true purpose for
criminalizing Salvia. On April 2006 Mr. Stancliff sent an email
and had the following to say about enthusiasts of Salvia
divinorum:
I've heard from others using the substance that worry
me. They're looking at Salvia as a God or high
priestess, a plant to be worshiped and to try to
attain oneness with. This is not rational or helping
mental behavior.
MR. DEGENSTEIN said he believes that Senator Therriault's
Catholic background is reflected in the statement and asked if
religious freedom shouldn't be valued in this country. If this
bill were to pass, persons wishing to use Salvia divinorum as a
religious sacrament similar to the Mazatec Indians would not be
able to obtain the plant for such use.
Criminalizing Salvia divinorum would also affect research in the
state. The amount of regulation that must be followed in order
to study a controlled substance would make the research costs
unjustifiable when it's possible to study it in another state
where it's still legal. Several states have already passed
legislation regulating Salvia divinorum in ways that are similar
to alcohol and tobacco.
MR. DEGENSTEIN said that if the bill were to pass he would have
to destroy his garden even though the neighborhood hasn't been
affected by his involvement with the plant. He asked that his
liberties be protected.
2:32:26 PM
CHAIR FRENCH asked who is doing research on Salvia divinorum and
if is it being published.
MR. DEGENSTEIN replied he hopes to do research in the future and
would like to do it in Alaska. That's a primary reason for going
to school.
CHAIR FRENCH asked when he will complete his chemistry degree.
MR. DEGENSTEIN replied he's a senior at UAA and hopes to attend
graduate school for neurochemistry. That might not happen in
Alaska, he added.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he would vote to keep Salvia divinorum out
of the hands of children under the age of 18.
MR. DEGENSTEIN said yes; California and Maine have legislation
to keep it out of the hands of children and other states have
discussed making the sale illegal. Possession and use would
continue to be legal. "You've got to be 19 years old to buy
anything out of a smoke shop so they're not getting it from
Alaska under 18," he said.
2:34:06 PM
BRETT PATTISON said he is a voter in Anchorage District M
representing himself and various Alaskan citizens. He has used
Salvia for six years and believes that the claims about long-
term psychological damage are unsubstantiated. He agrees with
Mr. Degenstein that most research indicates it has potential
therapeutic uses. He has found it to be helpful to his mental
health given that research shows that it acts on receptors
against heroin and cocaine addiction. He would support
regulating the use of the plant to anyone over the age of 18. He
believes that the bill would infringe on his rights and he
doesn't support it.
SCOTT KOHLHAAS, State Chairman, Alaska Libertarian Party, stated
opposition to SB 52. Currently the Alaska Libertarian Party
represents just 6,692 registered voters but its influence
outweighs those numbers. It has long-standing traditions
supporting respect for civil liberties and a free market
economy. They believe that sending a message by criminalizing
something does more harm to the fabric of society than any
effect of the substance. Describing it as a self fulfilling
prophesy, he pointed out that the sponsor has tried to ban
Salvia for three years and for three years awareness has been
heightened and use is rising. He hadn't heard of Salvia until he
saw the bill. "We have a philosophy of live and let live. Our
position is that we would be subtracting items from the
scheduled substance list, not adding items." He asked the
committee to let SB 52 die.
CHAIR FRENCH asked the general Libertarian position with respect
to criminalizing the use of drugs.
MR. KOHLHAAS explained that they believe in self ownership. "You
own your body, you own your life and you have the right to live
any way you want as long as you don't infringe on someone else's
right to do the same." Libertarians don't necessarily want to
legalize the use of drugs but they have to. "In a free society
you have to have the freedom of choice to do these things. It's
not for the government to tell you that you can't. So yes, we
would legalize all drugs," he said.
CHAIR FRENCH, finding no questions or further testimony, closed
public testimony and held SB 52 in committee.
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